+1. Once Europe was rebuilt, NATO should have been dissolved. For the past 30+ years NATO has been a way to start wars, and thereby drain the financial resources and military strength of the US.
By taking on the cost of self-defense for Europe and paying for their warmongering, we fund their social program largesse, which is what keeps their elected officials in power.
Europe as we know it would not exist if it were it not for US taxpayers and US soldiers.
In part, that's what the current MSM freakout is about: the Trump team is telling Europe they will no longer abuse the US and steal its resources. Which is why the pushback also came as such a surprise to Zelenskyy, who had been trained to believe the US kowtows to Europe and will come to heel.
Pulling out of NATO can only be good for the US. Imagine the sort of society we could have if we didn't tax away and spend all of our money paying for Europe's exorbitant lifestyle and colonial ambitions.
The UN is a clown show but at least it keeps dialogue going among contentious countries. The security council also serves a purpose, and the value of US veto power should not be understated.
NATO has also been a circus - particularly Turkey, who undermines our position and promotes values at odds with western society and free markets. However, what does the alternative look like? Turkey turning eastward, and China or Russia gaining a stronger foothold in the Mediterranean definitely won’t improve stability.
Anyone who thinks Ukraine is a one-off is fooling themselves. Putin said as much decades ago. He said the fall of the USSR was the worst thing that ever happened to the Russian people. That’s in the context of the Stalinist genocide that murdered 20 million.
Yes, the Russiagate narrative was bullshit. No, that does not mean we must appease Russia.
Russia had a population of 140 million before they annexed eastern Ukraine. Ukraine has a population of 40 million. Eastern Europe, 285 million…
If Russia wanted to compete economically with the US, all they have to do is match our population. They have us beat when it comes to natural resources and trade balance (in a non-sanctions world).
Strangely enough, the current US economy greater resembles pre-collapse USSR than its modern successor.
You are quoting Putin laughably out of context. Russia has the same aversion to NATO bases in Ukraine that we would have to a Chinese alliance with Mexico and placing military bases on the Rio Grande. Russia remains primarily interested today, as it has for hundreds of years, in the "Great Game" - where they are having some success, particularly with Iran and Afghanistan. NATO is a "Cold War" relic that needs to be left to the tlc and funding of the European members. We can no longer afford it!
Essentially this. Putin doesn't want peace, he wants power, and can't be trusted, as he's broken at least as many promises as NATO.
Now, unfortunately, the US can't be trusted either, meaning Europe has to fend for themselves. The biggest failure in all of this is that most European countries have squandered their armies and economies, which will take a long time to rebuild. I just hope they do, else the situation will turn really dire.
I have limited understanding of NATO and the US commitment to it. But even from my limited understanding, it makes sense that in 1949 the US provided an overwhelming amount to support NATO. But, since the Cold War ended, I am not aware of the US's commitment being reduced or other NATO countries offering to carry more of the burden during times of prosperity. Only now that there are rumblings of the US considering pulling out, the US is "bad" for it. Seems a bit ungrateful. Similar argument for the UN. Similar argument for most international spending of the US. I am glad to see at least one term of US administration considering these costs. The US is not as prosperous as they once seemed, and it is time for the spoiled to realize this.
When the Berlin Wall fell, Mikhail Gorbachev agreed to allow the reunification of the two Germanys in exchange for the US promise NOT to expand NATO. US Secretary of State James Baker agreed to Gorbachev's demand.
Gorbachev kept his part of the deal and Germany was reunified. However, the West expanded NATO by 17 countries, marching the Alliance right to the Russian border.
The purpose of NATO was to stop Soviet expansion in Europe. It was a good idea that was successful. When the Cold War ended, however, NATO became obsolete. Usually, when a war ends, usually there is a de-escalation, not an escalation, as is clearly the case here. Instead of integrating Russia into the West, thus thwarting the Chinese, they continued to treat Russia as an enemy. Why? Because adding 17 countries to NATO meant selling them weapons systems, tanks, artillery, missile defense systems, aircraft, uniforms, and all sorts of spying equipment. Too many people were creating generational wealth from the graft to ever have it stop. Throw in a war or two and thousands of DC insiders future offspring will never have to work a day in their lives for the remainder of this century.
Until we have a budget surplus - not a single penny should leave our boarders.
The show Billions "What's the point of having Fuck You money if you cannot tell people to Fuck Off?" Same thing here - what's the point of having the biggest military in the world if we never tell anyone to fuck off or send them a bill. No reason we are sitting in $36T in debt.
Money shouldn't even leave our borders then. I'm sick and tired of subsidizing NATO, foreign aid, etc. It's time for them to adult and take care of their own countries. The military should only be used to protect the US. I'm done with the US policing the world and starting coups and wars in other countries.
As an European, I fully agree with your position. There are many things that are beneficial for the US to invest money abroad, but you've been very profligate at spending on things that probably have had net negative ROI for the US.
I'm mostly just sad that most European countries have taken this for granted and have forgotten that this "peace dividend" isn't forever. I just hope they take this serious and adjust to the new environment, and that it isn't too late to avoid being attacked and subjugated by the current neo-colonialists.
Guess I’m late to the party but I just discovered the audio read of this article! Welcome to my shower QTR family.
You can get the audio for any article using the Substack app.
The purpose of NATO has come and gone. Nobody is crashing thru the Fulda Gap.
Let Europe deal with Russia, they always have and Russia is closer than the US.
On the other hand, just how much of the US economy depends on the Military Indu$trial Complex?
A shift into other means to prop the economy of the US has to be explored.
I bet Elon has a few ideas....
+1. Once Europe was rebuilt, NATO should have been dissolved. For the past 30+ years NATO has been a way to start wars, and thereby drain the financial resources and military strength of the US.
By taking on the cost of self-defense for Europe and paying for their warmongering, we fund their social program largesse, which is what keeps their elected officials in power.
Europe as we know it would not exist if it were it not for US taxpayers and US soldiers.
In part, that's what the current MSM freakout is about: the Trump team is telling Europe they will no longer abuse the US and steal its resources. Which is why the pushback also came as such a surprise to Zelenskyy, who had been trained to believe the US kowtows to Europe and will come to heel.
Pulling out of NATO can only be good for the US. Imagine the sort of society we could have if we didn't tax away and spend all of our money paying for Europe's exorbitant lifestyle and colonial ambitions.
Careful what we wish for.
The UN is a clown show but at least it keeps dialogue going among contentious countries. The security council also serves a purpose, and the value of US veto power should not be understated.
NATO has also been a circus - particularly Turkey, who undermines our position and promotes values at odds with western society and free markets. However, what does the alternative look like? Turkey turning eastward, and China or Russia gaining a stronger foothold in the Mediterranean definitely won’t improve stability.
Anyone who thinks Ukraine is a one-off is fooling themselves. Putin said as much decades ago. He said the fall of the USSR was the worst thing that ever happened to the Russian people. That’s in the context of the Stalinist genocide that murdered 20 million.
Yes, the Russiagate narrative was bullshit. No, that does not mean we must appease Russia.
Russia had a population of 140 million before they annexed eastern Ukraine. Ukraine has a population of 40 million. Eastern Europe, 285 million…
If Russia wanted to compete economically with the US, all they have to do is match our population. They have us beat when it comes to natural resources and trade balance (in a non-sanctions world).
Strangely enough, the current US economy greater resembles pre-collapse USSR than its modern successor.
You are quoting Putin laughably out of context. Russia has the same aversion to NATO bases in Ukraine that we would have to a Chinese alliance with Mexico and placing military bases on the Rio Grande. Russia remains primarily interested today, as it has for hundreds of years, in the "Great Game" - where they are having some success, particularly with Iran and Afghanistan. NATO is a "Cold War" relic that needs to be left to the tlc and funding of the European members. We can no longer afford it!
What context? In 2005, Putin called the collapse of the USSR the greatest tragedy of the last 100 years.
Essentially this. Putin doesn't want peace, he wants power, and can't be trusted, as he's broken at least as many promises as NATO.
Now, unfortunately, the US can't be trusted either, meaning Europe has to fend for themselves. The biggest failure in all of this is that most European countries have squandered their armies and economies, which will take a long time to rebuild. I just hope they do, else the situation will turn really dire.
Definitely leave the UN for sure, and stop funding them.
I have limited understanding of NATO and the US commitment to it. But even from my limited understanding, it makes sense that in 1949 the US provided an overwhelming amount to support NATO. But, since the Cold War ended, I am not aware of the US's commitment being reduced or other NATO countries offering to carry more of the burden during times of prosperity. Only now that there are rumblings of the US considering pulling out, the US is "bad" for it. Seems a bit ungrateful. Similar argument for the UN. Similar argument for most international spending of the US. I am glad to see at least one term of US administration considering these costs. The US is not as prosperous as they once seemed, and it is time for the spoiled to realize this.
When the Berlin Wall fell, Mikhail Gorbachev agreed to allow the reunification of the two Germanys in exchange for the US promise NOT to expand NATO. US Secretary of State James Baker agreed to Gorbachev's demand.
Gorbachev kept his part of the deal and Germany was reunified. However, the West expanded NATO by 17 countries, marching the Alliance right to the Russian border.
The purpose of NATO was to stop Soviet expansion in Europe. It was a good idea that was successful. When the Cold War ended, however, NATO became obsolete. Usually, when a war ends, usually there is a de-escalation, not an escalation, as is clearly the case here. Instead of integrating Russia into the West, thus thwarting the Chinese, they continued to treat Russia as an enemy. Why? Because adding 17 countries to NATO meant selling them weapons systems, tanks, artillery, missile defense systems, aircraft, uniforms, and all sorts of spying equipment. Too many people were creating generational wealth from the graft to ever have it stop. Throw in a war or two and thousands of DC insiders future offspring will never have to work a day in their lives for the remainder of this century.
Please!!! I'm so sick of living in WWII forever.
Dr. (and former Congressman) Ron Paul should be the "hero" of anyone who loves liberty.
Love Ron but leaving NATO ain't it chief
Love that Ron Paul!
Until we have a budget surplus - not a single penny should leave our boarders.
The show Billions "What's the point of having Fuck You money if you cannot tell people to Fuck Off?" Same thing here - what's the point of having the biggest military in the world if we never tell anyone to fuck off or send them a bill. No reason we are sitting in $36T in debt.
Money shouldn't even leave our borders then. I'm sick and tired of subsidizing NATO, foreign aid, etc. It's time for them to adult and take care of their own countries. The military should only be used to protect the US. I'm done with the US policing the world and starting coups and wars in other countries.
As an European, I fully agree with your position. There are many things that are beneficial for the US to invest money abroad, but you've been very profligate at spending on things that probably have had net negative ROI for the US.
I'm mostly just sad that most European countries have taken this for granted and have forgotten that this "peace dividend" isn't forever. I just hope they take this serious and adjust to the new environment, and that it isn't too late to avoid being attacked and subjugated by the current neo-colonialists.